Future................

Holocust will began soon. It is possible that mass deporatation or killing of all non-chrstian living in western europe will began soon. It is my prediction based upon what i had seen during my visit to western europe and what is happening now.

Nazism is growing again in western europe.

Have you to say.............

"And also check out how the mulsim protested in France when the french government passed a law to ban all religious symbols from public school, which barred mulsim students from wearing their burkha."
let it be noted that catholic students were not barred from wearing their crosses

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IMHO
every religion has its share of extremists
islam has more than its share because a high percentage of its followers are poor, and are either currently, or were in the recent past oppressed by western colonials

nothing more to it

Yes Neutay, Cathloic students were also barred from wearing cross, so where Sikh from wearing Turbans, and so were Jews from wearing
kippah. Get your facts right.
But the biggest protest came from Muslim community. Then the french government allowed Sikh to wear a small form of turban, catholics to wear a tiny cross as long as it was not visible, and muslim girls to wear just a small head scarf and not a burkha that covered from head to toe. But this did not go well with muslim community as they wanted to exercise all of their religious freedom. What they forgot was that France is a secular country with a big distinction between church and state, unlike USA. I guess they should have leant this before migrating to France.

Where there are Muslim, There is a war.That's the fact noone can argue.

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the cross is usually worn as a necklace, and is usually concealed
therefore the law to ban crosses does not REALLY impact catholics. all they have to do is tuck it into their damn shirts
and please dont try to tell me public school teachers went groping between catholic girl's breasts to check the size of their rosaries

On the issue of Islam and civic strife: correlation does not mean cause. What are the reasons why there is trouble in many Muslim countries? There is often a history of opression, humiliation and despair in many of these societies. It will take a long time to resolve these problem, perhaps even a generation or two, but unless they are addresed there will always be new waves and forms of violence.

Also, bear in mind, no matter how much misinformation is being spread on this issue, the vast majority of Muslims are not extremists in most countries.

As for Western Europe/Nazism : Immigration is driven by economics to a great extent in these countries. As long as there is a disproportionately large aging population in these societies, immigration will continue. As for assimilation, it too is a generational thing, and as history has shown a lot of immigrants simply dont integrate well in the first generation. I doubt much can be done to change that.

you are right ..suppressed ...by whom!??????
their own religious leader?????
bastards...
treating woman less than animals ..
they want to live in 18th century.. anyways we don't care but the thing is don't impose such things to other people in other countries!!!

Suppressed not just by their leaders. Suppressed by people in their own communities and rejected by people in their adopted countries. Whether its opressing women or curtailing free speech, several Arab countries are fertile grounds for breeding extremism among a section of society without a doubt.

BUT, as the London bombings and the recent foiled plots have highlighted, the lack of assimilation into their adopted societies is the crucial factor in breeding the kind of extremism we have seen of late. Assimilation is a two way street - you have to be willing to assimilate but at the same time you need to be treated with dignity in the host country. Unfortunately, a lot of young people in countries like England and France feel alienated from the mainstream culture of the country they were born into. Even if you had peace in the Middle East, I doubt Muslim extremism will cease in Western Europe as long as a large pool of people feel so far out from the mainstream.

Captain haddock welcome back! :)

Glad to hear some insights!

Granted that women are oppressed more in the muslim world. They have less rights compared to US and the West. But stastistically women are more beaten up in US than any part of the world. Domestic violence is greater in US than any part of this world despite of amid US rights.

Some cultures have less rights for women while they think it is men's responsiblility to protect, care and make sure that they dont make women work for bread. On other hand some cultures have enough rights for women but yet they expect women to do more than men. such as becoming a bread winnir plus raisiing the family and also getting more beatings than women from so called backward cultures.

Are women really more liberated in the US and West? Or is it powerful western men's idea to make more use of women? Making women believe to be independent thru becoming a bread winner as well as taking care of other household stuff. And even with that gettin abused by men in greater proportionate.

I see that women are more exploited, used , and abused in US and the West than in third world.

The definition of abuse in Western world and Eastern world is completely different.
In Western world ,we have a term called "Verbal abuse " and a person can be charged for this crime ,but in Eastern world " a thrashing by a husband to a wife " is called a matter between a family.
Now ,I won't be surprised if someone in Sajha calls me "Pothi Basyo hai."

Good insights Captain!!

Sidster..what you fail to realize is that these statistics are coming out because ????
woman are free in free world and they express what discomforts they are having!!!
such is not incase of muslim world ..they keep it to themselves!!!!


What you guys don't realize is muslims leaders and men have BIG FEAR!!!!
they cannot see the indpendence and freedom in other western nation..
this is grand design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
to avoid westernization and freedom !!!!!!!!!

GUYS.. DON'T JUST SEE IN SURFACE !!!LAND,OIL ETC IS NOTHING..
THE TRUTH IS FEAR , FEAR OF LOSING THAT AUTHUORITY..THINK HOW I AM THINK ..GO IN DEPTH PSYSHOLOGY OF MUSLIMS!!!!!

Sidster- A quick comment. Culture can be used to justify anything - slavery was justified based on culture, Nazism was justified based on culture too. It is with this in mind that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was born and it is, in my opinion, the only basis we have to look at cultural practices from a moral angle. Unfortunately, both Muslim and Western countries fall short in keeping up with the spirit and letter of the proclamation. Not allowing women to drive in Saudi Arabia is as much against the spirit of the declaration as is illegally detaining enemy combatants in Gunatanamo without the right to a civilian trial.

Just a thought.

Tisa,

Stastically women in the US get more thrashing from thier husband than women from muslim world. Muslims just want to keep thier women in the house and tell them to do what they want her to do. In US women are told what to do and still get the thrashing. And ofcourse im only talking about abused women.

Right to choose ,my dear Sidster, makes a lots of difference.

And as IMI said, "Sidster..what you fail to realize is that these statistics are coming out because ????
woman are free in free world and they express what discomforts they are having!!!
such is not in case of muslim world ..they keep it to themselves!!!! "

Unless culture and religion can keep up with the pace of ever changing society around the world, people from such background feel left out. Islam has not progressed or evolved much. And this is the reason why people from such religious background find left out or "odd one out" especially in western countries.
Most of the bombers and rioters in London and Paris were british and french. They were mainly the second generation immigrants who have not successfully assimilated to the ways of life in host countries. Like Captain Haddock said, "assimilation is a two way street." With such strong and distinct religious beliefs in Islam, muslims find it hard to assimilate within host countries culture, and vice versa. This is the reason why youth in France are angry. These youths live in poverty with no discipline all their lives. While they benefit or are given opportunities to benefit from the socialist system in France, with free education, with lack of proper parenting and discipline, they fail miserably. The immigrants in France live mainly in ghettos. They beat up teachers and cops. I know this because my friend who teaches in the suburbs of Paris has told me her first hand experience. And they never come out of their miserable situation when they could very well get a good and free education to better themselves.
Assimilation as I see even though is a two way street, should first and foremost be from the immigrants. If you don't even put in an effort to learn the language and familiarize yourself with the culture of your host country, you only live in anger, frustration, and hatred. If you fail to understand and respect your host country's culture, I believe you should go back to where you are from.
Let's look at one incident in Netherlands. With an increase of arab immigrants in Netherlands, dutch find it despicable the way muslim treat their women. Hence, a dutch film maker makes a documentary about how women are treated in muslim community. This makes a muslim angry and kills the film maker. So it is obvious that the dutch now find it hard to accept muslims who have come to their country and have killed their countryman. This generates a lot of racism.
Now look at other immigrants such as Indians and Chinese. They adapt very well within their host countries. Thus we see less problem arising from them.
So it all comes down to one's perception and ability to see what is right and what is wrong within the boundary created by a different culture. It also depends upon one's flexibility. Almost like "survival of the fittest."

Now jumping to a different point of abuse of women in Arab countries being less than in US, of course that makes sense. Women in Arab countries and not given any chance to speak up their mind, thus they have less chances of disappointing Arab men. Whereas in US, they can stand for themselves, and more rift is generated.
It is almost like saying marriage and married couples are better and happy in Nepal than in western countries because we have less divorces. Well, in a society where women do not have equal rights and divorces are seen as sins and women as the main culprit, of course women are more likely to live miserably in married lives than happily single.

Agreed the onus is more on the immigrant than the host to assimilate. But, these second generation kids can hardly be called immigrants. They did not chose to be born into these countries unlike their parents who made a conscious decision to emigrate there. They did learn English and French and can speak it as well as any white Englishman or Frenchman. I don't think too many of these kids have a hard time letting go off their parent's culture. On the contrary it is the lack of acceptance by host societies of second and third generation immigrants that seems to be responsible in great measure for the alienation. The only alternative for people under these circumstances is their parents culture. Refusing to let go of Islam does not seem to be the case here - certainly not the case with the British Muslims who were involved in the London bombings and the foiled plot.

Agree Captain Haddock. Anthropologists say it takes 3 generation before getting assimilated with a different culture and society.

Tisa and ImI,

My point exactly. Women in the west have rights to express thus more #s of abuse reported here, i agree with that too. But my point is, its not the rights or culture that liberizes women in one culture than others. My point is women get equally abused in both cultures. Some cultures let them express the abuse and some dont. It doesnt effect the statististics of abused women regardless of the rights. May be its in the men's nature to dominate women and keep them submissive all the time, regardless of culture and religion. Men in all culture want percieve their women the submissive kind. Some let them express their discomfort and some dont.

Sidster - You offer a very interesting perspective and I find the statistic amusing but I don't concurr with the implied meaning of it. Women can be oppressed without being abused. Abuse is only one measure of oppression. Denying them the right to vote, the right to drive cars, the right to divorce the same way as men are some other examples of opression. But if your point is to merely bring the statistic forward (and it would have been nice had you quoted a source) then I see what you are trying to bring to the conversation.

Have a nice weekend.