I bet, if you have landed in here then, I have succeeded luring your attention just by this thread?s title per se. Well! Amusing is it?s it? Sankaracharya, one of most accredited Hindu guru is counting his days in the confinement and it hasn?t merely stirred anyone back in so called world?s only Hindu kingdom Nepal. I believe it?s an anti Indian sentiment at play, why bother a dhoti being arrested by bunch of dhotis? But I often muse over how Nepal would have reacted given the scenario Mr. Sankarcharya fleeing in Nepal dodging arrest but India demanding Nepal to cooperate for his arrest. The circumstances screech a big NO! We would have seen yet another brag of Hinduism. Yeah, I know I have put forward case of ?what if?, which could be argued on the ground ?no it has not?. Still, I am skeptical and against to those ardent Hindu followers who think, Hinduism is the greatest religion and philosophy of all.

I was born Hindu, but I don?t feel comfortable claiming myself a Hindu. I have surpassed the word HATE in here. I don?t have any explanation to ask with other religions, even if they opine their religion is the greatest. I am still egalitarian but bonded by Hindu culture. For me, I don?t get accustomed to the Hindu cultures and traditions for me but for my peers, and I know what exactly to do if they are not around.

I would have been loyal to religion only if I had cocksure answer why people are treated as a pariah for smoking marijuana or prostituting or deceiving? Epic states Lord Shiva enjoyed getting high, King of Heaven God Indra always had apsaras, dance bar girls in the contemporary world, amusing him, Lord Ram bamboozled the ethics of war by arrowing down Bali from behind the stone.

One should look at on his own boots before regarding other down. Let?s not get confused with religion, nationalism, frustration and confusion.

Hinduism is most paradoxically define religion then any other that exist. But if you divide to analyze philoshopy behind it is quite simple to look at. There are three kind of practices in Hindiusm and one doesn't necessarily supports another. Vedic, Puranic and Tantrik. Later after course of time they are mixed up to make huge lump of khichadi and thereafter brought to the practice in the form of modern Hindiusm.

Vedic era is actually difficult to be dated. They were oraly passed away for over thousands year before they were actually written down. Still in controversy, but it has been identified to be originated in Persia later brought to India, on the ground persian Avesta and Vedas share more commanality in different aspects. It has been analyzed Avesta and Vedas were originated out of same source and later might had differentiated based on individuals adversaries. It is not well justify whether Vedas were originated with the development of Indo-Persian however they might had jotted down into the form of scripts. Infact Harappan period is even refered to as Vedic period, which was gradually developed along with the Harappan civilization. There were no so-called aryan when Indo-European civilization arrived from Europe to Persia, later some of them diverted to India calling themselves an Aryan and some to Eastern and Western europe. Infact Aryan is not race by itself and was never mention in Vedas either as a race. So Aryan were not one to originate Vedas. However later after Aryan's Invasion in India, Vedas was brought into intense practices in form of Hinduism by so called Aryan.

Yes Visnothar Ji Dravidians were not indeginious. They had been culturely riched before Aryan migrate to India. Historian says Dravidians shouldn't be necessarily darked color. It is believed that they have been driven towards southern part of india near equator and as a cause of hot weather they transformed to darked colored inmates. May be later they were referred as Ashur (my guess). Puranic era was somewhere close to this time, where Aryan and Dravidians partices in there own way, but dominated by Aryans.

Trantrik was pratices of among different indegineous group. We see all these animal sacrifice is an example of those sort of pratices. Chandi, Mundi, Kali, Bhairav so and so was adapted by Hindu as God; as influenced by Tantrik Vidya..Purana is ritual content whereas trantra is spiritual.

Visnothar ji, I read some writings and what foce me to think is Hindu as name should not necessarily be a religion. Most problably the word originated from Sindha Nadi - and civilization developed around that Sindha might have consider as Hindu. What do you think ?

Visnothar Ji, you seems pretty knowledgeable in this context. Can you lime light little bit whether principles and philoGeet is apadation of Vedas and Upanisads?

Oops typo..

philoGeeta = Philosophy of Geeta

Pieces,hindu is a morden term coined for INuds valley ppl by persians/greeks/arbians..

. They were oraly passed away for over thousands year before they were actually written down...

--thats what "hindus" beilive in pieces bro and i really think its a misconception. do you actually think thats true? for me, as i mentioned early, these stuffs are hard to digest. Vedas, was written by a human, just like all the other philosophical ideas.

haha, you are right Vishontar jee, this is very vast vast topic,(cud also be called a kichadi topic) everyword you write cud be held against you, because this is Religion and for some ppl whatever is stated in Vedas is true, so they wont think "out of the box", so i dont think you will have any victory on this thread..nevertheless, thax again for sharing your knowledge and putting your precious time on this thread. and i aslo very much agree with you on what you said. "Truth can not be found through imagination and gullibility. Truth can only be found through reality. " and i also happen to see from the same perspective..for now, just axiously waiting till next weekend :)

Confuse bro thanx, I forgot to mention about INDUS but it not still clear whether it is from Sidha or Indus - it is same anyway. Who said here Vedas is not written by Human.. I didn't say that. Read my thread, I didn't say it had been Oraly passed by God or ALmighty. Confuse bro lets put this way- Harappan had reveal remarkable civilized form of life. If you turn pages, you will see their advancements in engeering to commerce to agricultural activities, you name it (like you, I consider these as hypothesis). And there were scholars as well. But what is ironic about that Civilization was they had not developed real scripts of writing, it was more of symbolic form. What I can't deny is, many aspects of modern hinduism was the already part of this Civilization. So why can't it be possible that so-called Hyms of Vedas were first originated within this civilization and passed over to another huh..? And finally human jotted it down to the paper..

La bro dherai discuss nagarum yesma - Vishonothar ji has made things clear to everybody. Confuse malai Pisces bhanana yaar, I am not pieces yaar.

well, when i started getting involved in this kinda topic.........my fren called me crazy and i thought i was the one but tell u what.........i am so happy to see so many intrest? specially with vishu avtaar ji.........he is my guru.........we learn so much? pisces bro is cool too......confused bro and i are in stage of ( anabhigya) still learning....too many complicated question.....vishuavtaar is in ( bhigaya)

vishuji pls can u touch puran and tell me about where shiva came from?

i am really confused

-(Dash) Ji, I don't think that I will buy your defination of Bhagawati and Bhagawan. But I appreciate the way of your analysis, which is the right direction. As you said, Bhagawati = vagina barer = woman. If so, every woman should have been addressed as Bhagawati instead of Nari. Bhagawati and Nari don't sound similar words. All Bhagawatis are women but all women are not Bhagawati. Similar is true for Bhagawan, all Bhagawans are men but all men are not Bhagawan. Here is real definition of Bhagawan.

Bhagga Rago, Bhagga Dweso, Bhagga Moho ti Bhagawa.

Meaning: One who uprooted all the abortions (dweso), all the cravings (rago) and all the delusions (moho) is called Bhagawan.

Raga (craving), Dwesa (abortion), and Moha (delusion, ignorence), these three are considered the origin of all the impurities of mind. If you analyze, you will be convinced. For example, anger, jealousy, hatred, ill will, animosity, etc have same root abortion, Dwesa. Greed, lust, passion, selfishness, stinginess etc comes form craving, the Raga. Ego, stubbornness, superiority complex, inferiority complex etc comes from ignorance, the Moha (people give themselves a lot of importance out of ignorance). These three are roots of impurities. Bhagga (Bhagga is Plai, Sanskrit is Bhagna) means to uproot, to eradicate, to cease, to bring them to the end. If someone uproots these three roots he is known as the uprooted one, the exalted one, the Bhagawan. This is the gift of Yogis and the Buddhas.

Hindus considered Geeta as their greatest philosophy, and the entire Geeta asked you to come out of Raga and Dwesa (but doesn't teach you how to come out of them). In one place Gita says, "Raga Dwesa Biwiktastu ?Be free from craving and abortion". In another place it says "Tyaktwa ragancha dwesanchha = abandon craving and abortion". And you will find these three words, Raga, Dwesa and Moha, throughout the Geeta and other scriptures.

A man who has completely eradicated Raga, Dwesa and Moha is called Bhagawan. That's why Bhagawan word is not used for all men. All the Puranas were written after the Buddha. They were just stories written on some special purpose, those stories have nothing to do with reality. You can find many Bhagawans in Puran, like Rama Bhagawan, Krishna Bhagawan, Brahma Bhagawan, Shiva Bhagawan, Bishnu Bhagawan etc. Let me not talk about this, if you want to believe keep believing don?t argue with me. If I talk about this topics I will be considered one of the greatest revolutionary ever, that I am :). I really don't like fiction, I enjoy the truth. That's why I have been saying that I don?t want to touch Pauranic Hinduism right now. It's not right time to talk about it, because I don't have time to write in detail to convince you, I am worried that I will just confuse you, that I don?t want :). For now let me put these Bhagawans aside, because nobody have any proof of their existence. Let's go to the real history.

The first and only historic person addressed by Bhagawan is Gautama, the Buddha. He was the first person known in human history who declared that he uprooted craving, abortion and ignorance. So he was known as Bhagawan.

Itipiso Bhagawa, Arahang, Sammasambuddho, Vijjyacharana Sampanno, Sugato, Lokavidu, Anuttaro, Purisadammasarathi.

[Such is exalted, uprooted one, who has destroyed all his enemies, who is enlightened by himself, whose every step is correct, who knows everything, who is incomparable, and best teacher of man and deities.]

{Buddha is such:
Bhagawa = exalted one, uprooted one (what uprooted? Raga, Dwesa, and Moha source of defilements)
Arahang = One who has killed all his enemies (mental defilements are real enemies).
Sammasambuddho = one who got enlightened with his own effort, without learning from anybody.
Vijjya Charana Sampanno = one who is expert in knowledge and practice.
Sugato = one whose every single action is positive.
Lokavidu = one who knows every single truth of the universe.
Anuttaro = one who is incomparable
Purisadammasarathi = One who is excellent charioteer to tame and human and Devatas.}


Bhagawan word is not cheap, it is very expensive words. Please interested ones, read all above Pali words, they are as clear as crystal, they define what Bhagawan is. What should the properties of Bhagawan are. What the qualities a Bhagawan should have.

Even though hundreds of disciples of Buddha were completely free from Raga, Dwesa and Moha, they never had been addressed as Bhagawan. Bhagawan word stuck only to Buddha, this might have two reasons. Either Bhagawan means the one who uprooted Raga, Dwesa, and Moha by his self developed technique, or those exalted Bhikkus didn't want to be addressed by the word which is used to address Buddha, their revered teacher.

Since Bhagawan word is not used for all enlighten man, there is no place for Bhagawati word to be used for enlighten woman. If you believe on those Pauranic tales, then you will find many Bhagawans and Bhagawatis :).

Second thing you said that there is no enlightenment:
I don't know what you mean by enlightenment. For me enlightenment is eradication of mental negativities. I took this definition from Buddha. He said "Bisankhara Gattang Chittang = mind is free from defilements". In another words, one who has uprooted Raga, Dwesa, and Moha. If you can uproot Raga, Dwesa, and Moha, your mind get cleaned, you are the enlightened one. This is what Buddha taught entire 45 years of his life after the enlightenment. This is what his Bhikkhus taught for more than 2500 years, and they have been teaching.

I don't want to elaborate here what enlightenment is, what the path is to get enlightened etc. If you are really interested in the path, the path is straight forward, scientific, pragmatic. If you walk in the path correctly, the result comes then and there. Here is the description of the path:

Swakhyto Bhagata Dhammo, Sandristhiko, Akkaliko, Ahipassiko, Aupaneyiko, Pacchatang Veditabbo Vinnuhi.

[Path given by Bhagawan (Buddha) is well explained, self observable, gives fruit then and there, inevitable to others to practice, capable to lead to full enlightenment, and directly experiential by wise ones]

Really Dash Ji, thus is Dhamma, thus is the path leading to enlightenment. I have experienced myself to some extent. I have been walking in the path since more or less than a decade. I have spent months in solitude, practicing the path given by enlightened one, the Bhagawan. It's a pure science, there is no magic, there is no hypnotism. It's a path that leads to the eradication of mental impurities. Mental impurities are cause of misery; Buddha has given a wonderful technique to eradicate them and live a peaceful life, a happy life. Dash Ji you sound a scientific individual, who believe on truth only. I am also like you. I am telling you this not to impress you and not to boost my ego, I am telling you to give stress to my point that there is enlightenment.

Enlightenment is not a hypothetical concept developed by war-tired people, but it a real state of mind which can be achieved by human being. Of course it can not be attained just by having faith on it, just by reading about it, just by talking about it, not by discussing about it. A tremendous amount of effort is required to walk in the path; I don't know how much effort is required to get the goal. It is a process, you keep walking in the path, keep eradicating your mental defilements, keep testing yourself whether your mental negativities are decreasing or not, if they are decreasing you are in the right path and one day complete cessation of defilements will come, that is enlightenment, that is called Nirvana.

Full enlightenment may be far away from me, but I am convinced that it exists. I am convinced not by reading the scriptures but through my own experiences. I am like a driver whose destination is in unknown place, thousands miles away, but has a road map. As the driver starts his journey by the aid of the map and keep finding the roads, streets, avenues and highways that are mentioned in the map. Then he get convinced e that the map will lead him to the destination, though it is unknown to him. Similarly, enlightenment is unknown destination to me but I have the road map and confidence on the map.

Needless to believe me, you come and test the path yourself. Strive for enlightenment as you will be taught, if you won't find the path that lead to enlightenment, at that point come to me and put your point. Of course by mastering all the books about Dharma, you will neither find what enlightenment is nor will you find the path that lead to enlightenment. As the Manusmiriti (in one of our thread) sound confusing to you, where in one place women were being condemned (abused) and in another place they were honored. If you have practiced the path, you would notice both the statements were valid, just a frame of references were different. I don?t have time to talk more about it, may be some time later, I have left all of my thread incomplete. What I want to say is, if you just read the book, but don't practice, you will get confused even though you are smart. You can't understand physics until you do experiments but you can pass the exam just by reading the physics books, without doing any experiment.

I am thankful to all of my friends who appreciated my postings, here and on the other threads, I am honored. I know the honor is not for me, its for the material that I post. Hope my effort will get materialized and you will understand the real Dharma, the scientific technique of mental purification, and try to find the way. I am getting busier and busier these days, I can't pormise anymore to post though I want to write something to confused Ji about Victory and Defeat & meaning of life,to Pisces Ji about philosophy of Geeta, and to MM Ji about Vishowntar, which is not equivalent to Vishnu Avatar :). MM Ji life is long, one day I will tell you about Shiva, but I want you to have open mind and big heart, prepare yourself for that :).

Nice to be among you guys, bye.

VISHONTAR , Kaha bata copy paste mareko ho babu.

Sorry friends, as usual there are lot many mistakes. But there is one that bound me to post. In the fourth Para of my last posting, please read appealeable instead of inevitable.

Dash Ji, I wrote you as per my promise. I forget to tell you one thing though. Buddha's teaching is real challange to wise people. You first practice it, master it and then say whatever you have experienced. I found his teaching is not against the life, rather it teaches how to live happily and harmonously. It's an art of living. No fiction can survive for long time, and can influence the mass. Wise people exist in all the society and all the time.

A wise person always stats after investigating the truth from all possible angles. Please check the validity of words, analyze them. Forgive me I couldn't appreciate you in this regard but I am your friend, your loving brother.

PQN1 ji Namaste :). Now I am leaving for you to catch my theft :). Good luck :).

Dear friends, this time I am taking longer vacation from Sajha, thank you for sharing your knowledge, I am obliged. This will be my last posting.

Vishowntar

vishuavtaar ji...........la ka ggako......jhan tapai ko posting kati pachi parkhida parkihda tension..tes mathi sanyo notice diyera farewell......we need guy like u who can tell us more about vedas........Maile tapai lai guru maaneko chu hernu....vishu dai...atleast email address ta dinu

Ka bich bato maa chodeko......hamilai