When i was a kid (or when i was in Nepal), i used to believe in God. I did however have reservations on religion but i still believed in God. Its been a year in US now and having met people from other cultures, the existence of a supreme being doesnt make sense anymore. 

I think that believeing in GOd instills in a person faith, confidence and positivity to get through good times and be appreciative of the bad ones. I want my children to have these qualities so i dont want to tell them that GOd doesnt exist. Moreover, i cant imagine what my parents/relatives will make of me when i talk to them about this. It isnt going to be pretty. 

It does give me great discomfort to think about all this. I must admit i feel less confident and more pessimistic these days. I want to believe in God but my logic doesnt give in anymore. In fact, i get irritated when i hear things like "God COMMANDED you to.." "GOd will PUNISH you if..", "We are SERVANTS in from of Him" "(on Christianity): "Jesus died on the cross for you"(THere are many who have made a similar magnitude of sacrifice). 

I think that God and religion are ancient theories that havent been discarded yet. And it hasnt due to the fear in people of what might happen if they didnt. One of my teachers once said "if there is no god and you believe in god, there is no harm but if there is god and you dont believe in god, there is harm". i feel this and cultural and social stigmas lead people to be religious and not question their beliefs. 

I wanna know what you guys make of this.

 "What is the difficutly in understanding Homeyji's argument?" 
Are you serious my friend? You find the argument that PNS never existed convincing?

 I was really looking forward to having an intellectual debate with a theist, but homeyji disappoited me. Homeyji, do you have any theist friends who think a bit more rationally? I'd be grateful if you could invite them to this thread.

 Hannspree: That is definitely one way to look at it but then again sun doesn’t answer our prayers nor bring justice to the righteous. Or does it? Why worship? Isn’t it like worshipping an object?

Nepal1234: yeah, I do ask question like “what is important in life”. I always considered achievement to be of prime importance. To be able to do something useful in this world before dying, to be a great man. But since coming to America, my view in this has also changed, unfortunately. I see people who have no ambitions in life, little concern about their future and always doing whatever they want. At first, I looked down upon these people. But then as time passed, I got the impression that what most Americans look for in life is happiness. They seem to be asking to themselves “am I happy?” Then, I started looking at those people with more respect. Why do we need to be a great man or achieve if it is so troublesome? I know achievement is a marvelous source of happiness but the amount of effort you put into achieving something could be spent happier. I have shifted my answer to “what is life for” from achieving to experiencing and being happy. But this is a whole new discussion for which we need to start a new thread.

I was really hoping people would be more inclined to godliness in this thread coz that’s where I wanted to be convinced. But this is just serving to confirm my doubts. L. Oh well, at least that allows me to ask this question:

How do you plan on holding your belief with your family: parents and future children? Are you going to maintain pujas when you are the head of the family?

Geology tiger: That crossed my mind too and I totally agree with you. The idea that God and religion were a means to keep people from being unlawful when police and other means were not possible seems very logical. Even if we were created from something or somebody, why should we worship it? Say we were formed from a complex reaction, why should we worship it? The reaction happened, it led to big things but that’s all. I agree with you and rachas that believing in God gives hope. And hope gives confidence. But isn’t it false hope? Hoping from a person who you don’t know exists? Can you still draw hope even when you’re confused about His existence? Are you able to believe in God just because you need a source for hope for something not going well even when youre so confused about His existence?

 Will be back

It's obvious that Homeyji was simply using the Prithvi Narayan Shah analogy to illustrate a greater point.
Homeyji, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the greater point you were making is that discovering God is not cheap. Am I wrong? That is what I took away from the conversation.

But I have my own point:
How can Chaurey or anyone else here demand for proof for God and just expect to receive this "proof"? What form of proof would be adequate for you? What kind of data would satisfy you?

When I read the history of Newton or Einstein, I don't remember them just showing up on forums like sajha and yelling and screaming and demanding proof of gravity or the laws of physics. I don't remember them simply demanding that the principles of Relativity reveal itself to whoever demanded it?

That is not how these great scientists discovered the laws of nature.

Somehow don’t have the energy to rant on an argument or discussion. Also no time to read the long logics presented here.

To the point my mind liked once someday here in sajha had quoted “there are 2 kinds of person with beliefs one who believes in god but is afraid that he will lose the god and the other who does not believe in god but is afraid that he will find the god.” Quite relevant.

Jwaii and Babal,

Yes, that is exactly the point I was making.

We cannot expect people who believe in god to be reasonable since they believe in something without any valid proof.

Babal Khate....I am not here to argue with you on whether finding god is cheap or not....that is not part of the what we are discussing...


it is about what YOUR belief is that makes you so sure God's existence is real. saying what makes me a non believe is not a proof...it is you who believes and assert belief in GOD and i want to understand why and what exactly is it that makes you believe in GOD. Why are YOU so sure god exists, what are you basing your belief in and do you think that is evidence of existence of god? 

Issac Newton and Einstein had mathematical evidence to logically prove their hypothesis. If anyone asked Newton or Eisntein they would be able to clearly and logically recreate these equation and logically provide evidence to support the hypothesis. Gravitational effect, theory of relativilty, etc are all effects we can measure mathematically and they did so in their works to people who came forward as well, in Newton's time he had to be careful not to be branded a heretic going against fundamental Christian belief that collided with what he had proved.

A good question would be - are you blindly believing in God or do you have some reason to believe in god. And what would be that reason? Is it something concrete or not.

Are you guys familiar with the term: "Paradigm" ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm

It is used in many places including management books. So it should be common knowledge to most of you. Please, any of you explain to be what a 'paradigm' is. That word is used in many different places.

 

Homeyji you are dodging the relevant question like you're scared to tackle it. We're talking about god here not PN shah or definition of some word.

Can you simply answer the following question

Are you blindly believing in God or do you have some reason to believe in god. And what would be that reason? Is it something concrete or not. How does it prove that God exists?

 grgdai, 
if you read the posts above you'd realize that homeyji isn't good with answering questions. the best he can do is ask you to read Gita and Mahabharat. 

Man ko kura and others,

You said you wanted to have an intellectual discussion with a theist. Well here is your chance. I don't plan to have this discussion on sajha all the time because I have better things to do...as I'm guessing all you do as well. But if you want to have a serious discussion, today is your chance.

Please answer this question:

Are you guys familiar with the term: "Paradigm" ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm

It is used in many places including management books. So it should be common knowledge to most of you. Please, any of you explain to be what a 'paradigm' is. That word is used in many different places.

I know that all you here are educated and highly well read. So please don't be shy. I need to know that you atleast understand this much. Without understanding what the word 'paradigm' is, you wouldn't understand many of the things happening even in this world, what to speak of God.

This is my point of view about god..........................
Well, the question of god's existence is very old and has been debated over centuries. I don't believe in gods existence and by god i mean the god that has been perceived by many with affiliation to various religious groups. 
Since childhood, I was not brought up in a typical religious way so i was not told about the so called pros and cons of denying or not worshiping gods. In my teenage, with little knowledge i had about science and logic , i often used to critically  think about the about god. 
All these years, i have been thinking and came to conclusion that he/she/it does not exist or putting it in other way, as far as my thinking goes he does not exist. There are things that happen in this world which i dont understand and science does not understand but it should not be named god. It can be simply called mystery. 
If  one day  I come to conclusion that god does exist and he wants us to do certain things then I will devote myself (body and soul). I won't be living this confused lifestyle. But for now, We are nothing but a continuation of life and nature, born-eat-sleep-produce offsprings and die. Nothing, no soul, no ghost just a flesh which degrades in soil for another species to start with chemicals we we were once made; recycled.

 chaurey bro, 
I was not trying to prove the existence of god by asking that stupid question. I just wanted to hear whether you believed it or not without actually seeing it by yourself which you said you would not .

 OK you got me into this one. 
Based on what I've read and understood "Paradigm" is the combination of the methodologies and the theoritical underpinnings that provides a model of operation of a particular subject area. 

Now here is one word for you:
"Fallacy"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
I hope you know that, right?

LovesToSuggest,

I am a theist. But I don't disrespect people who don't have have the same existential stance as I do.
I appreciate your honesty and I respect your perspective. I admire your willingness and courage to be sincere and honest with your viewpoint. Really.

What you said shows me that you have thought deeply about these questions. It shows an open-mindedness. And it shows that you are being true to your belief. I respect people like that.

Honestly speaking, I respect well-thought out athiests and open-minded deep thinkers like you more than I respect sentimental theists who are simply believing God because they are weak-minded and they are doing it out of fear or culture or something like that.

My friend, I too once took your very stance that you are taking. And then one day I got the answers that I needed to change my beliefs. It was not easy. It was very difficult for me. I didn't grow up a very religious person.

Like all Nepalese I went to pujas and bhajans because my relatives did it. But I never gave it a lot of importance. I never gave it absolute seriousness. And then in my teenage years I went through certain experiences that were profound. And they really changed my perspective. These experiences were very deep.
At first I was very troubled and disturbed by these experiences. I didn't want to believe that it was happening. But after a while the power of these experiences...which happened repeatedly, made me take another look at my beliefs. I didn't want to believe it. It was scary to think what believing in this would make me do.

It was scary to imagine how dramatically my life would change if I changed my beliefs. So I totally respect what you are saying, LovesToSuggest.

It is wonderful to meet a well-thought out person like you here on Sajha.