We grow up hearing about religious tolerance, how we should respect people's beliefs. Then, in parallel we grow up hearing about the freedom of speech.

Making fun of someone's religion is not religious tolerance.
Being able to make fun of someone's religion is freedom of speech.

Who will decide what is right?

Sajha has become a platform of religious freak from Nepal. So talking about 'tolerance' here is an oxymorone thing. Just scroll down and you will find the never ending thread from NAS and his followers literally bashing Chistianity. These Vedic saints post things that are the most absured.

ujl, is teaching Upanishad to all Nepalese regardless of their faith is not called imposing? You mentioned all other subjects but didn't mention about "including" other religions. Religious fanatics and leaders and issues shouldn't be given too much importance in a reasonable society. I don't think anyone (including me) should have any problem of your interest and beliefs about hinduism, but when you say that everyone should be taught ONLY hinduism and write like what you just did, it sounds to me that you are tirelessly trying to prove that hinduism is "superior" to other religions.

@metta....When did I said everyone should be taught only Hinduism? I do not follow present Hinduism. I follow Vedic Sanatan Dharma. Again, I am not imposing anything to anyone. Let there be knowledge of all kinds. Let there be arts of all kind. Let there be religions of all kind. If you like samosa, go and eat samosa. If I like laddu, I will eat laddu. I cannot impose laddu on you nor you can impose samosa on me. However, we both are eating the same stuff: atoms! The path is different, the goal of all religion is same. There is no inferior or superior ideas here.

Please DO NOT connect me with present Hinduism. I follow Vedic Sanatan Dharma.

Ujl, do you or do you not want/did you or didn't you say that "Upanishad" should be taught to all nepalese? It can be taught, but the students should have the option to not study this subject.

Name doesn't matter. To honor your request, I won't connect you with hinduism, and let's say "Vedic Sanatan Dhamra".. But I don't think everyone should be forced to learn "Upanishad" or any of "Vedic Sanatan Dharma".

What is your religious definition of "atom"?
When did this "Vedic period" occur? Are you saying that there were no conflicts among the religions (buddhism, hinduism, Islam) in the past?

One more question and I hope you will answer. Will religions of all kind be protected when the nation is "secular" or when it is explicitly of "Vedic Sanatan Dharma"?

@ metta....You are asking meaningless question. "What do you mean by religious definition of atom?" What kind of question is this?

ujl, please say that you don't want to answer if you do so. Ok, that question is meaningless. Can you please answer my other questions?

Vivant,
I lived in France for 5 years doing my post-doc research. I saw first hand the problems French society is facing with assimilation of muslim immigrants.
You talk about “give-and-take”. My opinion is, when you live your sh*t-hole country to come live in a richer western country, you take what it has to offer. You are already welcomed and all you have to do now is abide by its rules. Or else you stay where you are. You can’t come to the US and make your own rules.
France gives a lot to its people, including foreigners. It gives you free health care (even to foreigners); it gives you free education until university, it gives you cheaper social housing according to your financial situation; it gives you monthly minimum living wage even if you do not have a job etc etc. In fact a lot of work training programs are reserved to immigrants to help them get into work market.
But when a muslim immigrant goes to a hospital in France and demands that his sick wife gets checked only by a female doctor and not by a male doctor, it poses a problem. When some public school canteens start serving “halal” meat to all the students because it has a few muslim kids, it poses a problem. When some muslims make their wives and daughters wear niquab and roam around the streets in France, it poses a problem. When you see pavements outside of mosques filled with muslim praying on Fridays, it poses a problem. When you see French football players and French national anthem get booed by muslim french during a friendly match against Algeria in the stadium in Paris, it poses a problem. All these things pose problem to the republican ideas and principles French people have died for. And it shows a blatant disrespect towards the country and its people that have welcomed them.
Now, Algeria still has a lot of French living there. Tell me how many catholic churches are there? None. And how many mosques are there in France? Plenty.
France has a big Portuguese, Spanish, Polish, Indian and Chinese communities. But these communities never create any problem. It seems to be only the muslim communities (mainly Algerians) that seem to create problems. Surprised? Not me.
I personally believe, Islamic ideas and principles do not correspond with democratic values and that is the core of the problem.
Anyway with more than 50 international leaders participating in the walk today in France, I think the history is being made here. In future when we (including muslims themselves) will be able to make fun of any religion and idol including Mohammed without risking their lives, we will be able to thank those guys from Charlie Hebdo who died for it. So like I said in my previous post, we need people like the ones from Charlie Hebdo to push boundaries and test democracy.
So “Je suis Charlie”, does not mean, I agree 100% with the guys from Charlie Hebdo and their cartoons, it just means, “I am Charlie and I have the right to say what I want, about who I want without being killed for it.” No one should be governed by a religion.

Hurray,

I see something along your point of view..

It does create a problem, when a group of people want different set of laws. I think, and can be completely wrong, that one of the main reason that the muslims want sharia law is for being able to marry multiple wives. Do you know that in India a muslim guy, no other religion, can legally marry upto 4 wives? There was a high profile case when someone converted just to marry his mistress.

Btw, i have also heard that the government of nepal provides free trips, or heavily subsidies, the hajj pilgrimage for Nepalese muslims. I am talking chartrerd flights to saudi arabia here. Could someone verify this please?

To me this question reminds me whether the chicken came first or the eggs.

Hurray,

१.विस्वका धेरै धर्मका धेरै गुरु/ देउताहरुको कार्टून बने,जुत्ता चप्पलमा फोटो छापिए ,कति हाम्रै सौत एशिया का मन्दिर मुर्तिहरु तोडिए तर किन एउतै मात्र धर्मका मानिसहरुले तेस्को बदलामा मान्छे मार्दै हिडी रछन्?
२. के आफ्नो धर्म वा इस्वर को अपमान भयो भने मान्छे मर्ने कि तेस्को बिरोध गर्ने सव्य रुपमा ?
३. के तिम्रो हाम्रो धर्म संस्कार तेस्तो कम्जॊर छ कि सानो तिनो कार्टून ले डगमगिने ?कस्तो लाचार धर्म हो??
४. यदि तिमि लै त्यो कार्टून फिल्म मन परेन भने न हेर्दा हुन्छा ,सबै ले आफ्नो अबिव्यक्तिको स्वतन्त्रता पाउनु पर्छ कि पर्दैन?
५.के जैन हरु ले मासु खादा हाम्रो चित्त दुक्छा भने भने तिमि मासु छोड्न तयार छौ? के सिख हरु ले कपाल न कट मेरो धार्मिक मान्यता को खिलाफ छ भने भने हाम्ले मान्ने??
hindu le devi manne gai khayo bhanera kohi manche mardai hidya dekhya chau
mitra?or buddha ko murti massage bar ra strip club ma rakhe bhanera kasaile bomb padkako sunya chha?
भोलि जैन वा बुद्धिस्ट ले तिम्ले मासु खायोउ भनेर तिम्लाई मर्न पौने भो .सबै विचार लै प्रस्न गर्न पाउनु पर्छ ,धर्म पनि एउटा विचार हो र यसलाई न प्रस्न गर्न पाउनु पर्चा !

You guys are getting so excited about this Charlie Hebdo incident for no objective reasons.

Vivant,
Have you lived in a Muslim country?
Do you know that they do NOT allow immigrants to bring their own law into their country, why should France? By your logic, an American who cannot find pork meat in a muslim country is treated like a second class citizen. Isn't that the same?
The hijab is a such a flawed concept that will NOT work in Western society at all. How about a women in hijab on her driver license and passport picture? How do you identify that? Finger print, retina? or DNA analysis. If we comes across another culture who says it is against their religion to take photos or their name be written on paper. Where is the end? Some African culture might want to put on an animal mask on their passport picture like they do in their "culture". My culture requires a full Ninja dress with a sword, how about that for a joke? Seriously.

Very well said Vhotee. Apparently the western countries will always have to make concessions to their former colonies, even if that means letting go of their liberal principles.
Vivant, many french died during french revolution to give democracy to the world. France is a country of Voltaire, Baudelaire et Rimbaud, Monet, Henry Miller, Yves Klein, Sartre, Michel Houellebecq etc. And they will not bend over backward just to let few people who still live in middle ages dictate in their own country.

And now I would like to conclude and rest my case by a very fitting quote:
"I don't agree with what you say but I will die fighting for your right to say it." --Voltaire

Last edited: 11-Jan-15 03:15 PM

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@metta..... Vedic Period is a controversial matter. But, tentatively scholars believe that:

Rig Vedic Age : 7000 - 4000 BC
End of Rig Vedic Age : 3750 BC
End of Ramayana-Mahabharata period: 3000 BC
Development of Saraswati-Indus Civilization: 3000 - 2200 BC
Decline of Saraswati-Indus CIvilization: 2200 - 1900 BC
Period of Chaos and Migration: 2000 - 1500 BC
Period of evolution of syncretic Hindu Culture: 1400 - 250 BC
(Source: Penn State University; Scholar: Professor Dinesh Agrawal)

I do not believe that there were no conflicts in the past. As you can see above, there is a period of Chaos and Migration around 2000 - 1500 BC. Who knows what happened?

Will all religions be protected if a nation is secular or explicitly Vedic Sanatan Dharma?
--> Consciousness is the key here. This all depends on what the laws are and how fair are the laws. Fairness of laws depends on total knowledge. Are officer enforcing those laws? Do government understand what existence is, why people are here in this planet? So, knowledge is the key. And there are two kinds of knowledge. One is called the Apara Vidya, and the other is called Para Vidya. Apara Vidya deals with objective world and Para Vidya deals with transcendental knowledge which cannot be grasp by senses. Can government integrate these two knowledge? If yes, then that society will have peace, harmony, and prosperity.

Vhotee,

That is a lot of emotion in your comments, some of which doesn't warrant a response, but I will say this:

Just because Muslim countries discriminate against their migrants, as deplorable as that is, that is no excuse for France to do the same. By comparing the size of the pile of trash in your backyard to someone else's, all you are proving is the existence of your own trash and reinforcing the need to clean it.

On the other hand, if France truly thinks it is a more enlightened society, the society of Voltaire, it should set an example for how a modern progressive Western society deals with the complexities of immigration and changing social structures. Marginalization is not the answer. And telling people they were treated worse where they came from is no reason to treat them badly again. You have to rise above that.

French Muslims born in the country are as French as anyone else by birth right. Many of the laws of France were written for a different society with few or no immigrants and do not take into account the aspirations of the multicultural society France has become today. People can chose to live in denial about the demographic and cultural realities for only so long. Since mass deportation is not feasible, France is going to have to accept its Muslims and some of the cultural baggage that comes with them. Trying to break their spirits and coerce them into submission hasn't worked so far and is unlikely to work again in the future.

ujl, thanks for answering.

@metta.... Can you explain what is this term "Religion" is? Can you explain what is this term "Hindu" is? Can you explain what is this term "Secular" means? Can you explain what is this term "Hindu State" means? And finally, can you tell me where do all these exist?

I asked you a very simple question, and you don't want to answer. I don't know what religion is except some fools are willing to die for it and also some like you come forward showing that my religion is great like this and that and everyone should learn about my religion. Hindu State in my understanding means that the proponents want to call Nepal हिन्दु राष्ट्र नेपाल and give special status to only one religion. I can't talk in your twisted logic about their existence.

Vivant,
You don't want to respond cause you have no answer. See, I have friends like you who wants a utopian society but lacke the word 'reality' in their vocabulary. Yes, everybody wish the world should be perfect, but it has never been and never will be.
BTW, comparing LGBT issue in a European context is bit ridiculous. Europeans are far ahead of the Americans accepting gay marriage. Now take gay marriage from a Muslim perspective, I'm all ears if you think Muslims treat better to gays than Americans.
And talking about pile of shit, I am fine with my shit in my backyard but I do not prefer they toss their shit in my property. Is that not a rational human logic? Your logic is my backyard is clean but I have to tolerate people's shit cause I'm more evolved. For how long?